Conspiracies, Curses, Horrors, and MPA Ratings "They're here!": Poltergeist (1982)

Screen Cares 

Conspiracies, Curses, Horrors, and MPA Ratings "They're here!": Poltergeist (1982)

Originally Aired Tuesday October 10th, 2023

Intro, both hosts

<Spooky sounding theme music>

This is Screen Scares, a special October series created by Screen Cares. I’m Sarah, and I’m Jennie and we welcome you to our place to connect beyond the screen and dish on what scenes and scares excite us most during the fall season. And explore ways we can watch and be scared better, together. 

Jennie: We're going to play a game of “what do these things have in common with the movie that we are going to discuss for Screen Scares.” Okay, here we go. Ready for a list? 

Sarah: I'm ready. I'm always ready for a list.

Jennie:  Okay, here's a list of movies. Let's go. What do they have in common with what we're going to discuss today for Screen Scares?

Incredibles 2, Finding Dory, Star Wars. Frozen, Shrek, Beauty and the Beast, Lion King, Secret Life of Pets, and Inside Out. 

Sarah: Animated movies? 

Jennie: We're not talking about an animated movie today. 

Sarah: Movies that made a crap ton of money off of parents and merchandising? 

Jennie: Maybe. They did make a lot of money, but that's not the only thing they had in common with our movie today.

Sarah: Oh, I don't know. I don't know. 

Jennie: Okay. All of these things, these movies, these childhood classics that shape our children's character, and help define their life have in common with the movie Poltergeist. Is that they’re all rated PG.

Sarah: I feel like one of these things is not like the others. 

(Laughter)

Jennie: Cue the music! Um, yeah, one of these things just doesn't belong. Whenever we think about the movie Poltergeist. It is a big, black, terrifying, face melting thorn in the side of the PG rating. And I feel like a lot of things about this movie are scary, both because the movie is like a classic horror, but also scary because of the places this movie inhabits. In popular culture and the place that it inhabits and the collective nightmares of all children of the eighties . And so I'm excited to get into it today, see what your experience was like watching Poltergeist. And also to share what mine was like with my parental amnesia, where I stupidly was like, It's rated PG let's have the kids watch. And I did it again-I perpetuated my trauma. 

Sarah: Okay, so was this the first time that the boys have seen this?

Jennie: No, it was probably a year ago. Maxwell and Patrick both got into this kick where they wanted to watch horror movies. They had kind of exhausted the Goosebumps. They had exhausted, Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark.

So anyway, they wanted to watch a “real” quote unquote real horror movie. And I was like, okay, well we got Steven Spielberg. It’s PG. Okay, it came out the same year as E.T., probably fine. Uh, I can't really remember. I remember it was really scary, but everything was scary when I was little. Let's do it. And so they watched it once then, and they watched it again when I just rewatched it, like parts of it. And so, yeah, yeah. Have your kids seen Poltergeist? 

Sarah: No, they haven't. And I'm about to shock you. I have never seen Poltergeist. Until this week. I basically went on a Steven Spielberg strike when I found out something about him in this movie. And so I refused to see it, even though I was, this was one of the horror movies that I was going to get to be allowed to watch. Um, but because I found out this thing about it, I was like, nope, not going to watch it. And then for years and years, I didn't watch any Spielberg movies until I was probably, I think I was like a junior in high school when I was like, okay, I guess I better start watching a, you know, a few of them.

This is the first time ever, ever, ever.

Jennie: I am gonna have to find out during this episode what it was you found out that blackballed him for you. 

Sarah: Well, I'm so excited to talk about this. So should we start with the IMDb rating, or the IMDb summary? 

Jennie: Yeah, let's do it. The summary, in IMDb, Poltergeist is a movie released in 1982, it is rated PG, and it has a runtime of an hour and 54 minutes, and the description is...

A family's home is haunted by a host of demonic ghosts. 

Sarah: It is a summary. It's a one liner. I get what it's about. And then from that, I feel like I could decide very easily whether I wanted to see that or not. 

Jennie: Right. Right, right. I think, though, one thing that the description does that is also contributes to the misleading nature of the PG rating is that it's just like, oh, ghosts.

Sarah: They're like apparitions. They're like smoke. They're, they can't grab and hold on to you. Like, ooh, what are they gonna do? Go through you? 

Jennie: Ooh, I think that's a really interesting thing to remember, too. That's what I love about Screen Scares Month, is like, we get to think about why are things scary? How are they scary?

And what is the hierarchy of scary? And I think along with hierarchy, we've got ratings. And so before we deep dive into the rating of this movie, because the rating and then the kind of actual content of the movie are two big things I want to talk about today. And I know that there, there's overlap there.

Like if there's a Venn diagram of the life of the rating of this movie and then the actual content of the movie, I want to discuss that place where it overlaps. But before that, let's talk about our Screen Shares rating because I think that this would have been helpful for many parents in 1982 to get a little heads up that maybe, maybe I'm not going to give this a little screen.

So Sarah, let's start with you. What Screen Shares rating would you give Poltergeist? 

Sarah: So in 2023, I think that I would give it a Family Screen because seeing it for the first time now, I don't find the effects particularly terrifying. But if I were to have seen it, you know, years ago, I think that I would have had to have given it only a Love Screen because it is scary.

There's very scary images. The ideas behind the things that are happening. But I could see this being a really fun movie to see with a whole family, with the kids, especially if they're sort of like that older kid age, but not yet a teenager where they really want to participate and watch scary movies, just like you were saying about your kids.

I feel like this is a decent gateway movie, as long as they can handle like some gore and some like surprises that are bigger than what you would expect. 

Jennie: Yes, and I'm glad you mentioned that piece too about the imagery is scary. But also the idea behind them is scary, because sometimes if something is just like, Oh, there's gore, and there's no scary context to it, it's not nearly as scary.

Okay, so, Family Screen. I can get behind that. I can get behind Family Screen, absolutely. Okay, so mine.

 Sarah: What about you? Yeah, yours. 

Jennie: My ScreenShare's rating for Poltergeist is going to be Love Screen. I want people to go to this movie on their dates. Like this is my perfect scenario for this movie. You are sitting next to someone that you maybe will have kids with in the future.

I would like for you to watch this and think, How should I not parent? 

(laughter)

Sarah: Yes. Um, so much.

Jennie: How can I take this as a cautionary tale of not parenting? But you know what I just realized, Sarah? What? It could be a Work Screen, too. 

Sarah: It could be a.

Jennie: Work Screen. It could be an amazing workscreen. We have so few opportunities to give out workscreens.

I am gonna also just, here's why it could be a workscreen. This guy does not have clear work life balance. The dad in this movie is like, sure, I'll be the first house in this housing development. Um, that he then is later finds out is built on top of cemeteries. I say, Maybe Work Screen set boundaries. 

Sarah: I love it. So you're going with full on Love and Work Screen? 

Jennie: Yeah. So either Love Screen, watch it, don't do that as a parent. And also work-life balance. 

Sarah: I love your choices so much. 

Jennie: Alright, well cool beans, I think. Um, so we have really definitive, um, ratings this time. So Love Screen, Family Screen, Work Screen.

All of the above. So before we get into kind of the key points I wanted to discuss about this movie and we talk a bit more about the ratings, I am interested, what was your experience like watching Poltergeist for the first time? 

Sarah: Nobody else was around, so I just, you know, me and the couch and the dog, we are watching Poltergeist and I am thinking to myself, hmm.

I wonder if this is going to be worth my years long standoff of refusing to watch this movie. And, I kept thinking to myself, I really hope that I haven't missed a bunch by not watching this movie. But, I watched it, I kind of like, laughed, I kind of, you know, was scared in a couple moments because even though the effects I think are a little bit on the laughable side at this point.

Um, that idea of, again, the separation of your kid terrified me. I just kept putting myself in the mother's shoes, in the father's shoes of when that little girl got sucked away and nobody knew where the heck she was, but just heard her, like, disembodied voice coming out of the TV from the never, ever Everland.

I mean, that is absolutely terrifying. It was so abundantly clear that all of the horror movies that have come since this have used so many elements that were in the movie. And I feel like I would have been a better movie watcher of horror movies had I not been a jerk and seen this, you know, in the early 90s or whatever when, when I was first given the opportunity to watch it.

Jennie: That leads me to my next question, which was, what was the boycott inducing moment for you and Steven Spielberg? What was the deal? 

Sarah: So Jennie, I love the movie E. T. It was one of my favorite movies as a little kid, and when I found out that Steven Spielberg actually didn't direct this movie and he was producing this movie at the same time as he was directing E.T., but yet he kind of He kind of wasn't giving the director of Poltergeist any credit back then, and he was sort of, even when I was, I think I was maybe 10. I think I was 10 or 11 when I, when somebody was like, “hey, do you want to watch Poltergeist?” And I was like, ooh, a scary movie. Yes, totally. And, I was talking to my dad about it. I was talking to some other grownup that was there. I don't remember who it was, and they were saying this to me that like, “oh yeah, you know Steven Spielberg. He's kind of big for his britches. Yeah. He kind of likes to act like this is his movie.” You will always hear people say, Steven Spielberg's Poltergeist, but you won't hear them say Toby Hooper's Poltergeist.

Like who knows who that is? Even though he, you know, has directed lots of gross, scary movies himself, and as a little kid, even that did not sit well with me, and I just did not like the idea of this big, fancy director guy that everybody appreciates and admires taking credit for something, even though he was the writer and the producer. I do get that. I do get that he contributed and contributed immensely in lots and lots of ways. And so I was like, “yeah, I'm not going to watch that.” And not only am I not going to watch that, I'm not going to watch any other Steven Spielberg movies ever until I was like 17, but whatever. 

Jennie: This podcast would have been much harder if you had never seen any Steven Spielberg movies.

But I also now understand why you were like. “I hate The Fablements.” 

Sarah: Oh, totally. I mean, I still don't, I still do think that he is overrated. I'm not gonna lie. Like, and maybe it is because I've been colored by that perception of him since being a kid. You know, it's just hard to shake things when you have an opinion about something when you're little. It's really hard to shake that when you're older, even if you're wiser and have lived more life and experienced more things and heard other perspectives. It's hard. I've still, I still remain in the camp of like, yeah, he's done some decent stuff, like E. T., and he's done some really horrible crap, like The Fablemans, in my book.

(laughter)

Jennie: Your feeling of him being big for his britches, I think ties in with something that I do want to talk about, and something that makes me care about this movie enough to bring it to you during screen scares. So yes, it's scary. Yes, it's a gateway horror film. But also, I think, like I'd said, this movie itself in form and the content highlight the fact that greed clouds people's judgment. When people want money, when they're money grabbing, power grabbing, any of those things, a lot of people's just basic human decency just goes right out the door. And I have to ask you, do you think, Sarah, that as many people would have been like, a Tobey Hooper movie?

Get the kids in the car. Let's get some popcorn and spend thirty bucks at the theater. Or... It's a Steven Spielberg movie? I mean, right? 

Sarah: Totally. And I think that you're talking about something that is super, super important because I also do think that when you are forgetting these important elements or changing elements or emphasizing certain things, you're kind of ruining the art form.

And I think that not giving credit, for instance, is doing a disservice and damaging the art form of the movie itself. What are you talking more about? I feel like you're about to push us off of the edge of this pool into a skeleton pool of, I don't know, conspiracy or something. Like, what are we about to talk about?

Jennie: Let's get into it. So you've got the very, like, first inclination that even 10 year old Sarah was able to feel, Hey, something feels weird about this. It feels like the artists aren't getting the credit they need. It feels like there's some kind of money or power grab here. And you could pick up on that all the way back then.

And it upset you. And also whenever I did my very first Google search upon rewatching this and was like, PG, this is rated PG! I was incensed. I was so upset because the very first articles that come up, and this is from a lot of different sources, are that this movie was not originally rated PG. This movie was originally rated R, but it was rated R in the early days of the MPAA ratings, whenever the only rating options were G, PG, and R.

There was no PG-13. And so, Steven Spielberg, knowing what he knows about theater and being such an industry giant. He knows that R rated movies make less money than PG rated movies. And so there's all sorts of conspiracy theories and tales that confirm that at a minimum he went back in and appealed the movie, arguing that it says parent parental supervision is required, and that seems reasonable for a PG movie.

And He took that, he manipulated it, so that not only did he get more money, yay for him, but he completely ignored the fact that generations of children would be watching this and would be traumatized. Those ratings were in place for a reason, and adults ignored that and rated it what they wanted it to so that they could make more money.

And so, this is it. Let's dig into the conspiracy theory. There it is. And it's exactly like what happened in the movie. Where the people were like, We want to make this beautiful domestic paradise. But where's the land cheapest? On top of a cemetery? Same thing! It's like literally the exact same thing. And that's, that's like my main point.

And I want to dig in a little more to like a deep dive into the rating system, but that's it. Bold letters. Highlight. Conspiracy. Steven Spielberg. Money grab. Poltergeist. traumatized generation. 

Sarah: Ah, he's dead to me. (Laughter)

Oh my gosh, Jennie. Okay, I need to know more. So, as you're talking, I'm realizing that I actually I feel validated about my feelings about him, but I also realize that I don't think that I actually know that much about what that rating system process looked like back then. So what did you find out when you were trying to figure out this whole PG versus R rating thing.

Jennie: Let's get into it. And I also will link in our show notes the actual MPAA. Now they're going by MPA, so Motion Picture Association of America, or now they're just going by Motion Picture Association because I guess, Love America. is synonymous with the whole world. 

Sarah: Ah. It must be nice to have that confidence.

Jennie: Let's play a game to teach us a little bit about the MPA rating system. Are you ready? I'm ready. I'm gonna read you a description of a rating, and I want you to guess what rating it is. Okay, let's start with something easy. Just to be clear, the rating system now is different than the rating system then.

So, back whenever, um, Poltergeist was made, like I said, there was no PG-13 rating and there was also no NC-17. It just went straight to X. And the reason they changed that was because... People just thought that it was pornography. So, um, they, they just changed it. So, current rating system, PG, G, PG-13, R, and NC-17 are the options.

Okay? Okay. Here we go. Let's start with “nothing that would offend parents for viewing by children”.

Sarah: G. 

Jennie: That's correct. It is G. I also want to just talk about that language for a minute. It puts the, like, again, monolith of parents, because apparently... We all agree on things. If you've had a child, you agree with one another.

Sarah: Right. Well, and such a subjective word. Offend. Like, that is so, that is so subjective. What does that even mean?  

Jennie: So subjective. What does that even mean? Okay. So then, next. I'll do the next one. “Patently adult, children are not admitted.”

 Sarah: NC-17. 

Jennie: Correct, correct. And so each of these descriptions is accompanied by a little cartoon drawing.

This one has, like, a couple would go to this, and then a really creepy twenty something looking guy with his hands in his pockets. 

Sarah:Eww. 

Jennie: Next, here we go. “Contains some adult material. Parents are urged to learn more about the film before taking their young children with them.”

Sarah: PG. 

Jennie: Incorrect. Oh. I'll let you guess again.

Sarah: Okay, PG-13. Incorrect. 

Jennie: I'll let you guess again. 

Sarah: What? They need a rewrite on these. Okay, fine. Are. The only other option-R.

Jennie: It is R. So I'll read it again. Contains some adult materials. Parents are urged to learn more about them before taking young children with them to the movie. 

Sarah: So, that is not, that doesn't make any sense, especially the addition of the word young.

Yes. Like. That's so dumb. 

Jennie: Next one. “Parents urged to give parental guidance may contain some materials parents might not like their young children to see.”

Sarah: Well, now I don't know. I would have said PG, but I don't know. I'm gonna say PG-13 now. Oh, I'm getting a big fat F on this 

Jennie: It's PG. 

Sarah: Oh, I'm getting a big fat F on this test.

Jennie: And last but not least, “parents are urged to be cautious. Some materials may be inappropriate for pre teenagers.” 

Sarah: See this description and the rated R description need to be flip flopped. I feel like I'm in, like, what? 

Jennie: I agree. 

Sarah: I feel like I'm in, like, what? 

Jennie: No. Yeah, and so this is on the official website from the MPAA, like print this off, put this in your movie theater, this is what the rating systems are. They have several different  currently. Like currently now.

Sarah: This Yeah. Wow. It's so inadequate and wrong. 

Jennie: There are some two year olds who will not care if you watch Poltergeist in the same room with them. There are some 38 year olds who will not want to watch Poltergeist. And so that is what I think is very interesting and that I, what point I want to make about the MPA rating system is that it's completely predicated on the idea that there is this kind of patriarchal system between parents and kids where the rating system is really just about kids and parents.

And Although, yes, that's where you're going to probably get your, your buy in and, and where you're going to get legislation to help you make this happen. It's still really interesting to me because there's no trigger warnings. There's no Screen Shares rating component to it. There's just a lack of thoughtfulness that places all of the criteria on, is there vulgarity? Is there violence? And then how much of each? And then somehow they’re, I think, and I'm interested for your opinion on this. I feel like they're incorrectly assuming that age is the. only qualifier for what would make a movie recommended or not for someone. 

Sarah: I agree with everything that you're saying. And I'm really, I like.I really appreciate what you're bringing us today with this conversation because another thing that I'm noticing is that not only are they using basically age as the cutoff, but they're using a value system that they assume that we all have. I'm wondering, why don't they do more? Like, what do you think about if they were to have a system where instead of these weird value based...

unhelpful lines. What if they were to say specifics about the violence, specifics about the language. Kind of like how nerdy, like my family and I love looking at the IMDB parents guide more than I like looking at all the other parents guide because, you know, some of the other ones, like the big ones, I won't name their names, they are so value based.

And I don't agree with them most of the time. I don't like the age limits that they make up. I don't like the things that they say. So we always look at the IMDb because some poor sucker has to watch the movie, and they have to count the F bombs. They have to count the number of buttocks that they see, and they list it.

And I find that way more helpful than reading somebody else's opinion on, you know, what is appropriate and what's not. Do you think that that would be more helpful? I know it would be more laborious, but it's more objective.

Jennie:  I want to make sure we, we list a link to that, the parent's guide. Because I do think that if you're listening to Screen Cares and Screen Scares, you probably are a pretty thoughtful movie watcher.

I think that the trend they've had lately where they will at least kind of do the little blurb at the top of the screen on the TV that it's like mild violence, sometimes it'll say that there's rape or suicide or other things you might need a trigger warning for, but that's not something that's really front and center whenever you go see a movie theater movie and without doing the work yourself to look it up.

And so, yeah, I definitely think that when you just describe what's in the movie, you just describe the facts of it. Yeah. You're not applying a value judgment. (Sarah hm, hm) It's kind of like reporting the news. Like if you literally, as much as everything's, you know, subjective, but if you're just listing the F bombs, the sex, you're just listing it, it makes it a little easier for people to know what you mean.

Like, oh, okay, they say, they say the F word 73 times. That's a different type of movie than I, um, thought we were going to watch today. (Sarah laughs).

Sarah: And so, I think I guess that writer had a limited vocabulary. 

Jennie: Right. Right. But again, it's all just guidance. Right? It's up to individual people to decide what's right for them.

And totally. Yeah, exactly. Which I like. I'm not, like, arguing for more legislation or more constrictions on media by any means. But I will say this, a little more accountability from the Steven Spielbergs of the world. Because like, I think if someone said, oh, it's Texas Chainsaw Massacre guy, that might not be right for my kids.

But instead they knew that. And so they're like, let's put the E.T. guy on it. Which leads me to one other thing that I wanted to look up, which was, can ratings be changed? The answer is, yes, ratings absolutely can be changed. However, the process to petition a rating is usually, at least from their website, what I could see, initiated by the creator. And the producer of the film. 

Sarah: Oh, come on. 

Jennie: Exactly. So yeah, Steven Spielberg and them, they went in and they're like, how about not R? How about not? And it got changed. And so it would take someone acknowledging they did something wrong or that was not advisable. And now that there is a PG-13 rating, at least get it bumped up to PG-13.

I'm still upset about it. And so I like this movie. It's fun to watch. I don't mind watching it with my kids now that we all know what to expect. But I can imagine people I know and other families being kind of. lured into a false sense of security with this movie. Maybe the kids watched E. T. and they're like, oh, let's watch another movie like this.

And Netflix recommends Poltergeist maybe. 

Sarah: Who knows? I'm really glad that we're talking about this whole movie selection process because there is a lot of thoughtfulness that you and I put into this, obviously for the show, for screen cares, for screen scares. Um, and also I do think that you and I watch movies a little bit differently than a lot of people.

But at the same time, I don't think that we should, that the average movie watcher should have to possess such a depth of knowledge about how movies work. I don't think that it's fair that all of these ratings are not consistent across the decades. And yes, I understand that that's because not all the movies, all the ratings existed through the decades of movie making that there has been.

But in my mind, I think what a great solution would be albeit very laborious, um, but I'll, I'll nominate myself, that sounds fun, would be to go through all of the decades in which there weren't the same ratings that there are today and readdress it and say, okay, Poltergeist, there wasn't a PG-13 back then.

Let's look at that. Let's see what it is by today's standards, um, because we do that in a lot of different ways. Like if you think about it, building codes, yeah, like you get grandfathered in if you had like an old historic house, but if you're having to do any sort of renovation to it, it has to be up to code.

Like today's code, not like the code from a hundred years ago. 

Jennie: That is an excellent, excellent analogy. That actually really checks out. You're not like, well, that's how we did it. I guess Coca Cola still has cocaine in it, guys. (Sarah laughs) That's just what we signed off on. We all said it was fine. It's still fine. No, you change, you adapt.

That makes complete sense. I think that's thoughtful. And also, MPA, you've heard it here. You want to put us on payroll, we'll go through. We'll take that sacrifice and get paid to watch a bunch of movies. We'll do it. 

Sarah: That sounds so fun. 

Jennie: It really does. But I'm glad you kind of talked about the idea of making revisions, because according to a New York Time article, which I will share, they're actually released an article about how they're thinking about adding a new rating to the MPA system.

Sarah: Oh, interesting. Yes. What is it? 

Jennie: The new rating would be between R and NC-17. 

Sarah: Why is this necessary? 

The examples that they gave were movies like Kill Bill, where apparently Quentin Tarantino actually had to do some of the scenes in black and white and do some other creative things because originally it was tracking towards an NC-17 rating.

But to get it back down into R, where it was like marketable because there's theaters that won't show NC-17, most theatres, won't show NC-17 rated movies. [00:28:00] And so there's been several times that movies have petitioned NC-17 ratings. They're thinking that they might add something in that middle space. So it's interesting that they're trying to further define the more I hesitate to the upper limit of things.

Really, it seems like they're just trying to, like, squeeze into theaters. 

Sarah: I want to read the article. I will go into our show notes later today and I will read that article. But I think that that is Maybe, you know, there's a lot of things that need to happen in the movie industry right now. Like, uh, maybe resolve the strike that is currently happening.

That might be a thing to work on. Yeah, it must suck if you have this movie and you want to get it in all the theaters, but Also, you created the guidelines for what these ratings are, so And movie makers, it's not a secret. I love Quentin Tarantino, but I think he knows what they are. So if you don't want it to bridge that line, don't bridge that line.

Jennie: Right. It's interesting because just like in any business or any, uh, most creative fields, you have perimeters. Like, you, you do have, you know, standards of practice that, that have to be met in order for people to kind of know what to expect in order for us to, I guess, like domesticate the creative process, if you will.

(Sarah And I think that's a great way to put that.) Domesticate the creative process. Oh yeah. I like that. Well, that's the thing. I think that in the same way that we as movie viewers, like you said, should have a slightly easier time of assuming. This is probably okay at a PG-13. Let's get back into the actual content of the movie.

I think that the people who moved into, what was it, Cuesta Verde, the planned community, uh, probably California kind of situation. They incorrectly assumed that there weren't dead bodies under their house. 

Sarah: An assumption we should all make.

Jennie: I mean, was that on them? Did they really need to check that?

Even the guy selling the houses didn't know that. He assumed it was all okay. And I think that, I'm glad you brought in the idea of the writer's strike, and the Actors Guild, and all of these creators. Really feeling disenfranchised and removed from the final product of their work and from the financial benefits of it.

And that's what happened here to the characters in this movie. The guy hadn't got the promotions he wanted. He wasn't getting what he wanted. And then ultimately the very system that he was serving failed him and made his house collapse and sucked his child through a TV. 

Sarah: It's really, um, it's not a really subtle sort of metaphor, is it? You know, like I, as I was watching this, um, I was really curious, like, this is one of the few times where I didn't peek at your notes before watching the movie because I wanted to be surprised and I wanted to try to think about what what you're going to focus on.

And in my mind, I was thinking, Oh my gosh, well, she, Jennie has definitely got to be focusing on, you know, commercialism or just greedy people. And yes, this is what we're talking about right now. It's something that just felt so greasy and creepy at the same time to me. 

Jennie: It was super on the nose. Like it was super, super, super on the nose, which what's weird about it is it seems like an indictment of greed.

Sarah: Yes. 

Jennie: But made by very, by greedy people. Yes, like it's either incredibly un-self aware. Or, it is like super meta, very self aware, like, let me make a movie about how bad greed is, but then make tons of dollars off of it. It's, yeah, man, right? It's just very, like, layers there, but I do want to take it one step further.

Uh, just a slight detour on this very clear point. I do want to say that in the post production of this movie, after the movie came out and it was so traumatizing to people, this mythology of there being a curse came into being because multiple people associated with the Poltergeist I and Poltergeist II ended up having untimely deaths.

And people were like, “well, it must be cursed.” And I think I wanted to highlight this point because this is something I talked about with The Shining last season of Screan Scares, and I'm gonna talk about it again because it's something that I think makes us love scary movies. It makes us love the idea of myths and curse, curses, but I want us to all challenge ourselves because you know this wouldn't be an episode of Screen Cares without some kind of a call to action. Let's all try to actually look at what causes things because even if it's harder to solve, it's still worth doing. So this myth of this curse, the two people who died associated with Poltergeist I, Dominique Dunne and Heather O'Rourke.

So Heather O'Rourke was the girl who played the little girl who was sucked into the and she died whenever she was like 12 years old because of a myriad of very strange, very difficult to pin down across all the articles I read, case of kind of digestive distress and an aneurysm that caused, um, a stroke related to her having septic shock and just a host of things that felt really weird to me.

I may be a conspiracy theorist. Maybe that's what she died of. Maybe it wasn't, I don't know, but she was young and she passed away and we could attribute that to a curse, or we could ask ourself how our healthcare system is doing. And I know which one's easier to deal with. 

Sarah: Yes, we could say it's a curse, or we could look at our healthcare system, or we could look at our child welfare system, too. That was the other thing that I was thinking about. In my mind. 

Jennie: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. That's actually much easier, right? So, I think that it's easy to be like, oh, man, this movie, there's just, it was so well made, it caused a curse. Okay. We'll go there. The next death, and this one just breaks my heart, is the actress Dominique Dunne, who played the older sister in this film.

And she was a victim of domestic abuse. She was killed by her boyfriend, strangled in the street

Sarah: Ew. That's horrifying. 

Jennie: Horrifying. And. Ugh. It is just like gut wrenching to think about that sweet girl having that happen just a matter of years after this film is recorded. It made my skin crawl. And there's a scene in the movie where she is in her school uniform.

She is clearly a child. And she is catcalled by a bunch of grown men working on the housing development. 

Sarah: I hated that scene so much, and the mother's reaction, like, what a freakish reaction to that. She saw that whole thing, and she was like, Ha ha ha, that's so funny. No, that's not funny. I'm firing everybody, and I'm calling the cops on all of you.

Jennie: Like why do you think that part was even in the movie? That, that, for me, I'm like, why was this even done? It's just really creepy. They put the ick factor in. They let you know that, like, everything, everything down to the building of these houses is yucky. But they also didn't indict it. They didn't have the mom go out there and be like, What are you doing?

Like, that's my daughter. You know? It was like a, It's like clearly like, (Sarah: She is cute.) Very pre date line to catch a predator. And then you add that to the fact that she ended up being a victim of that same kind of culture of powering over women. Not an easy problem to fix. So instead, let's just say, it's a curse.

And I think that as I'm watching scary movies or any movies and there's some kind of excuse made for why terrible things happen, instead of making it supernatural, instead of making it fantastical, let's maybe just think about the reality of it. Let's think about, is there something I can do? Because you can't always do something.

You can't always. But you can go back and review your rating system and make sure that it's serving the community that’s giving you money. You can't go back and make sure that the society that you live in is serving everyone and that it is not literally covering up the death and past that is built upon because whenever the little girl would talked about being sad about her pet dying, everyone made fun of her and acted like she was somehow like sentimental and petty.

And I felt like the whole movie did that. Over and over again and put sentimentality and caring and history literally beneath itself. (Sarah: Mm-hmm.) And I think that you have to look back, you have to self-reflect and you have to honor the things that came before you, or else you're gonna just create your own curse.

And it's going to be the curse of not being aware. 

Sarah: I kind of want to circle back to something that you said earlier when you were sharing about the MPA rating system. And you started to talk about how you were thinking that it's really weird that a lot of the cutoffs are based not on content exactly, but on age.

And I think that even because you brought that up. And because I know who you are, I know that you put so much thought into the things that your kids consume and the things that you also consume in terms of media. Like, you are very thoughtful. When you are choosing to watch something, you own it. Like, if you watch something silly and dumb, you're like, I'm watching this silly and dumb thing because that's what I need right now.

But you also own the fact that, like, if you are going to be watching something hard, and especially if you're watching it with your kids, that You are recognizing like, Hey, we're gonna watch something that's a little bit difficult. We might need to stop it. We might need to go get snacks. We're gonna have conversations during it, or you evaluate even where you are in that moment if you're okay to watch certain things.

And I think that that's a level of, like, responsibility and awareness that you were sort of, you know, talking about that. I think we all need to be encouraged to have whether it's as parents and sort of guides and leaders of our own homes and families, but of ourselves, too. And I don't think that there's any shame.

Mm hmm. In saying, hey, you know, I don't like scary movies. You know, I might be 40 and I don't like scary movies and I don't want to watch them. Great! Nope, that's fine. Sometimes we forget about it, movies are here as an art form. We are experiencing them, um, because of all the emotions that they bring up.

We learn from them, we enjoy them on so many different levels. But if, ultimately, at the end of the movie, you feel gross, or upset in a way that hasn't led you to something new, then don't do it and it's okay. And I wish that the MPA rating would guide us in a different way. I wish the industry would have some sort of, I don't know, character, some backbone.

in not just getting our tickets, not just whatever, but putting an emphasis on the awareness piece that I think that you've done such a great job in talking about here.

Jennie: Thank you so much. And I think that's part of why we wanted to create this podcast. Also, the number of times I've asked like, Hey, what are you guys watching this week?

Do you think that this movie would work for us? I think where my kids will say, ask Sarah if she thinks I could watch this movie, if it's like a borderline PG-13 are, and if I know you've seen it, you you'll respond with, you know what I think. It's probably okay, but I know, I'm just, I'm making this example up, but “I know you recently lost a pet, and there's a really graphic scene there, and so although it's rated PG-13, it might be rough for your kids to watch right now.”

That's the kind of awareness that you really only get when you ask a friend, because they know you personally, and you can also know yourself personally. And I think it's okay to do what you did as a 10 year old and say, no thank you system. I will not be participating in this form of media or this person, this actor, this anything, because it doesn't resonate with my values.

And I think that we can all, you know, work together and be here to share what is and isn't meeting our, I think pretty basic values of like-hey, just be nice and be thoughtful. And if we're being nice and thoughtful, probably good. And if it's not that, like, just do better. 

Sarah: Right. Well, and you were talking about this, too, but also trusting your gut.

Yeah. Like, I felt like you were leading us there as, like, sort of like the third thing that we need to do when we are making choices is, you know, we do have instincts as human beings.

Jennie: That's exactly right. You're exactly right. So that actually was the third point. It's, it's greed can cloud judgment and cause unsafe, unhealthy systems.

It's the idea that the myth of the curse, like, it's not necessarily real. And the last one is absolutely that. It's trusting your gut and listening to other people's guts. Often the children, any groups that are not really getting their fair due in society, maybe it's It's like the screenwriters. Maybe it's that.

The people who are usually being disadvantaged in some way, the children, anyone, are probably getting a pretty good picture of what's wrong because they're on the receiving end of it. And so listen to your gut, listen to other people, and don't treat innocence and kindness as weakness. It doesn't mean you can't handle things just because you're young.

It doesn't mean you can't handle things because you're part of a certain group. It just means it's different and it's not weak. And so... You don't have to be mean to be strong. 

Sarah: That’s right and just because you don't want to see something doesn't mean that you can't handle it either. 

Jennie: Yes, oh, I love that.

I've said that to my kids before when I'm like, listen, I think you can handle anything, but I don't think this is best for you right now. (Sarah:Mm hmm.) So I think that's exactly it. Oh, man, I think I got this off my chest. You got, like, decades worth of, like, feelings about this movie out, and I feel like the takeaway is Sarah's right.

So, we should all just trust her instincts on it. Also, now, watch the movie, do it with a grain of salt, know that it was made by the same person who made Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Um, you know, that happened, it's real. Be thoughtful about your systems, trust your gut, and don't be a sucker for curses and myths.

Let's just pay attention to the real, real of it. 

Jennie: Let's end on our screen sparks, like what is this making us think about? I think there's a lot to noodle on here, a lot to learn in our show notes this week. One of the questions I had, which was similar to what we just finished talking about, is what is the line between playful dismissal of fake fears and acceptance of real threats in the name of peace and progress?

So like, when there's a real threat... Like, the daughter sliding across the floor over and over again, and the mom being like, Oh, wow, look, my daughter's being transported across the floor by something definitely haunted. And they're like, It's probably fine. 

Sarah: Let's just do it a lot. Right. And so like, what's that line?

Jennie: What's that line for you? At what point are you like, Yeah, this is not acceptable. It's call the paranormal investigators. Go on strike. Stop watching a certain creator's movies. What's your line?

Sarah: I love that. That's a great question. Another question that I think, I'm going to say this one because I died of laughter when I read this one, but, would you put a terrifying clown in your child's room?

And why or why not?

(laughter/cackling)

Jennie: Yeah, another way of stating that question is, do you care about your kids or even pay attention to them? So, no. Why or why not? Maybe this movie's fine. Yeah. Here's a clown. And then the last question, I think, that kind of wraps a lot of this up is, where should the line be drawn between commercialism, commerce, and self determination? And so, whenever we got this big, muddy mess of people making money, but us also wanting to consume things, and creators wanting to create, what are your lines? How do you decide what you do? I think that these are all fascinating questions. I think that they're interesting to get into.

And I think, hopefully they can help guide you as you make some decisions about what scary movies to watch this month.

 Outro, both hosts

<Spooky sounding theme music>

Thanks for letting us share our screens and scares with you this week. We hope that you keep watching for the meaning behind the screen and enjoy our special spooky October Screen Scares episodes. Don’t forget to like and subscribe to Screen Cares wherever you listen to your podcasts. 

Then, if you’re like Jennie and I and love digging deeper into the things that fascinate or horrify you, drop by our social media pages, check out our show notes, or visit our website at www.screencares.com for more info. 

Huge special thanks to Brooks Milgate for giving our Screen Cares theme song a spooky spin for Screen Cares month. 

<Spooky theme>

<bonus deleted conversation>

Sarah: Can we talk about the sheer amount of glitter that was under that little girl's bed? There was so much glitter! Like it didn't stop coming out from under the bed when like the ghosts were swirling around, she was holding on to the sheets with her like dear life. 

I really wondered, was it the parents' pot smoking that just led them to overlook that she was playing with that much glitter in her room.

Like, and I mean by the pounds! There was so much glitter.

(fading laughter of both Jennie and Sarah)

<Spooky theme>